for tomoko IV

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for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:45 pm

singapore has given us this adorable little problem and you should try it because fuck you

Albert and Bernard just met Cheryl. “When’s your birthday?” Albert asked Cheryl.

Cheryl thought a second and said, “I’m not going to tell you, but I’ll give you some clues.” She wrote down a list of 10 dates:

May 15 — May 16 — May 19

June 17 — June 18

July 14 — July 16

August 14 — August 15 — August 17

“My birthday is one of these,” she said.

Then Cheryl whispered in Albert’s ear the month — and only the month — of her birthday. To Bernard, she whispered the day, and only the day.

“Can you figure it out now?” she asked Albert.

Albert: I don’t know when your birthday is, but I know Bernard doesn’t know, either.

Bernard: I didn’t know originally, but now I do.

Albert: Well, now I know, too!

When is Cheryl’s birthday?

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by xx_gladhander-freedom on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:04 pm

too bad op im doing it

it's may 19th because 19 is the only unique day
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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by xx_gladhander-freedom on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:05 pm

wait a sec
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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by xx_gladhander-freedom on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:08 pm

it is for sure NOT the 19th or the 18th because bernard would know

based on what he said this completely precludes may or june and from there im gonna have to think about this more
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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by xx_gladhander-freedom on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:11 pm

july 16th, august 15th, or august 17th

give me a sec
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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:36 pm

oaky is that last big giving you trouble because one second has become lots of seconds

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:47 pm

this is gay

i prefer real math opposed to this pseudophilosophy shit

hurr durr the question never said that she whispered it in bernards ear, she could have been heard by albert as albert knows the month and now the day, while bernard only heard the day because cheryl whispered it specifically in his ear

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:48 pm

ya except this is completely solvable and has nothing to do with philosophy or shit like that

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:49 pm

i mean seriously it's basically just a glorified word problem nerd

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:00 pm

how is it solvable

there are 4 months and 6 days, distributed by 10 dates

theres a 1/10 chance it could be any one of those days

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:04 pm

you're a fucking math major how hard is it to solve this oaky's already done like 5 of the steps for you

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:14 pm

seriously this isnt hard

the birthday can't be in may or june because albert knows that bernard can't know the birthday just by the day alone

it can't be the 14th because that would be a repeat and would not give any correct information about the month

this leaves july 16th, august 15th and august 17th

from there, it can be solved because bernard knows that albert got the correct answer by using the month. since july is the only one with one date left, the birthday must be july 16th because august has two potential options which would mean that he could not know the correct answer based on month alone

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by roomo on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:28 pm

why luke, this reminds me of a puzzle

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:27 pm

quality wrote:seriously this isnt hard

the birthday can't be in may or june because albert knows that bernard can't know the birthday just by the day alone

it can't be the 14th because that would be a repeat and would not give any correct information about the month

this leaves july 16th, august 15th and august 17th

from there, it can be solved because bernard knows that albert got the correct answer by using the month. since july is the only one with one date left, the birthday must be july 16th because august has two potential options which would mean that he could not know the correct answer based on month alone
 
 then it could also be june 17th going by that logic

 how can albert say that may or june arent in the birthday if bernard knows only the day? so they get eliminated just because they have a lot of numbers?

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:29 pm

jewmoko wrote:
quality wrote:seriously this isnt hard

the birthday can't be in may or june because albert knows that bernard can't know the birthday just by the day alone

it can't be the 14th because that would be a repeat and would not give any correct information about the month

this leaves july 16th, august 15th and august 17th

from there, it can be solved because bernard knows that albert got the correct answer by using the month. since july is the only one with one date left, the birthday must be july 16th because august has two potential options which would mean that he could not know the correct answer based on month alone
 
 then it could also be june 17th going by that logic

 how can albert say that may or june arent in the birthday if bernard knows only the day? so they get eliminated just because they have a lot of numbers?
Albert knows that Bernard can't know the answer just by knowing the day. So we have to rule out May and June, both of which have days (the 18th and 19th) unique to them.

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:32 pm

How did May get eliminated?

Even if the day is 16, how does May get eliminated? The statement "You don't know the answer" would easily apply to Bernard knowing the day the 16th, but not the month - Bernard still doesn't know which 16 it is, and Albert still doesn't know which date in May it could possible be. 

All that's eliminated is May 19th. 15 and 16 are still viable dates in May and saying "You don't know the answer" would apply since the 15 has another date in August, and the 16 is in July. 

Saying "You don't know" does not convey any new information. It just proves "you don't know". Might as well be May 16th instead

Looking at July 16, Bernard only knows it would be July, but there are two days in July, which one of the two? Albert knows it is a 16, but which one? May or July? Do the other days in May make May 16th incorrect just because they share the same month? 

 Why are the variables in May suddenly dependent on each other? July 16 doesn't rely on July 15, why should May 16 be represented by everyone else in the set? Thats not how sets work out

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:37 pm

jewmoko wrote:How did May get eliminated?

Even if the day is 16, how does May get eliminated? The statement "You don't know the answer" would easily apply to Bernard knowing the day the 16th, but not the month - Bernard still doesn't know which 16 it is, and Albert still doesn't know which date in May it could possible be. 

All that's eliminated is May 19th. 15 and 16 are still viable dates in May and saying "You don't know the answer" would apply since the 15 has another date in August, and the 16 is in July. 

Saying "You don't know" does not convey any new information. It just proves "you don't know". Might as well be May 16th instead

Looking at July 16, Bernard only knows it would be July, but there are two days in July, which one of the two? Albert knows it is a 16, but which one? May or July? Do the other days in May make May 16th incorrect just because they share the same month? 

 Why are the variables in May suddenly dependent on each other? July 16 doesn't rely on July 15, why should May 16 be represented by everyone else in the set? Thats not how sets work out
Remember, Albert is told either May, June, July or August.

Bernard is told either 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 or 19

Let’s go through it line by line.

Albert: I don’t know when Cheryl’s birthday is, but I know that Bernard doesn’t know too.

All Albert knows is the month, and every month has more than one possible date, so of course he doesn’t know when her birthday is. The first part of the sentence is redundant.

The only way that Bernard could know the date with a single number, however, would be if Cheryl had told him 18 or 19, since of the ten date options only these numbers appear once, as May 19 and June 18.

For Albert to know that Bernard does not know, Albert must therefore have been told July or August, since this rules out Bernard being told 18 or 19.

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:38 pm

If the day was 18 or 19, then Bernard would be able to instantly tell when the birthday is, as those two are the only unique numbers. But how does 16, 15 and 17 get eliminated?

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:40 pm

For Albert to know that Bernard does not know, Albert must therefore have been told July or August, since this rules out Bernard being told 18 or 19.

 Again, July and August have a commonality in the 14th, like how August and June have the 17th in common

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by quality on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:42 pm

even the dudes who wrote this problem think it is july 16th tomoko

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:49 pm

No it is not, shut the fuck up with that!

For Bernard to not know Cheryl's birthday immediately after being told the day, the day would have to be non-unique in the list of possible days. So somehow, Albert knows that the day is non-unique. How could he know this for sure, given only the month? Because there are certain months that don't contain ANY unique days. Therefore, based on Albert's statement, we can conclude that the month Albert was told does not include any unique days. But yet all of the four months contain non-unique days, since when the fuck does an entire set of data get thrown away based on ONE VARIABLE?

 "LOL MAY IS ELIMINATED BECAUSE THERES MAY 18, BUT IF HE HAD BEEN GIVEN 16 THEN IT CAN BE MAY, BECAUSE MAY ALSO HAS 16"

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:51 pm

THIS IS NOT MATH

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:52 pm

this is philosophical bullshit that never happens in the real world. this will never be applicable to anything, unless youre an asshole taking a "philosophic logic" class and pretends to be smart.

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:53 pm

and no, im not mad, fuck you if you think that, because i know that this makes no sense. why does may get eliminated, thats so stupid. the entire set is not dependent on one figure, just means that the set of data has a small outlier

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Re: for tomoko IV

Post by jewmoko on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:54 pm

whats to say that LOGICALLY, cheryl didnt give them a wrong date, as it could be an outlier relative to data

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Re: for tomoko IV

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